Education in pakistan

Education in pakistan

Today we are going to talk about a subject that is global in nature education without which no society can prosper no nation can become a developed one no proper understanding can come between different sectors of the society our Constitution also envisages that all people all children and till a certain age should be given this education but since the eighteenth Amendment this how is the responsibility of the different provinces nevertheless education is a very important factor for our government and is a very important part of our Constitution.

Education is concerned at the rural level at the urban level what needs to be done 

what are the issues that the children go with as far as education is concerned at the rural level at the urban level what needs to be done what are the laws that specify education and the different reforms and have been brought in the education sector and need to be brought do parents understand what the importance of education for their children is especially under the current circumstances when children little girls and little boys do not understand or are not aware about the repercussions of something as heinous as rape do these things need to be also somehow included in the curriculum in the coming days and years to talk about that and more and furthermore the importance of education for a country like Pakistan we've been joined by to a million guests let me reduce them to you one by one am I very right it's Gavin Clay see Gavin clacey is of course a senior academic manager for a program under the British Council that is called pili Gavin welcome to our show thank you for having me second is our colleague from PG View home she does program on law and she is a barrister herself Fatima Shaheen welcome to our show Fatma let's begin with you education and quality education especially under the current current circumstances and scenario is more and more relevant prevalent and important do you feel we are at that stage where we can be comfortable seeing that our children understand basic things as far as knowledge education and
the basics simple things of life are concerned I think well to answer your question straight away I think had we been there then you know maybe we could perhaps have avoided cases like zan ups to a certain extent it at least but I think to say that you know we cannot aspire towards it that would be you know a fallacy so I think that we are some way in the middle because recently a few years ago the Punjab government did add you know a chapter on violence in the textbooks at a primary level which i think is a very progressive development because if you are educating the very young children about you know about their different body parts and how somebody could possibly you know use them and you know if you are basically telling them how to say no to child abuse I think that's a very positive step but having said that I think education them is just not the only key we also need to work towards you know building in fact removing those barriers basically which prevent us from talking about such issues and education is not of the children we also need to educate parents we also need to educate teachers and I think the society at large needs to be educated and so to speak also the you know perpetrators who are actually going around committing these is also a lack of education that leads to such crime for us yeah of course of course and education like I just said you know education in a very large umbrella needs to be there and having said that I think we also need to educate those who are sitting there and forcing the laws they also need to be sensitized about such issues that is yeah that is true given peely the programmer of the British Council focuses on three very important aspects that includes teaching methodology English language and leadership now coming to teaching methodology under the current circumstances social scenario you know what's been happening in our country especially with the little girl rapes and murders are concerned do you as a responsible organization and belonging to one focus on such issues as well or when it comes to teaching and training the teachers I think child child protection is definitely an area which is very important within the British Council and it's something that covers all of the areas of work we work in the arts in education and society in English and exams so absolutely just doing our own due diligence so when we recruit people to work on our projects we would look into their background look at police checks we we put all of our employees through training which raises awareness of issues that you're talking about so that so that we as a team are better able to detect possible telltale signs that somebody that a child might be being abused and and what you can do if you suspect that a child is being abused so yes there it's definitely something that's really important to us and already you focus on that and you work on that while working for programs are just speedy under the auspices of the British Council yeah you mentioned that one area that we work with with Emilia is school leaders educational managers head teachers so a big part of the face-to-face training that we provide to that group of people is a module on child protection so we hope that in doing so these head teachers will be better able to support teachers who have that direct contact with children in raising awareness and also they can make these children aware of these little issues that are prevalent in the society so that those children can also confide in the teachers should something like that arise with any student in the class I think that's very important on any social level whether it be in parks or even in the United Kingdom because this is something that is also very global happens everywhere but we need to be aware of that Nelson Mandela Fatma says that education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world now in Pakistan it's also a very important tool and can be used as one but there are a lot of issues that we encounter at different levels at the rural level or at the urban level whether it comes from the lack of proper planning - social constraints - gender gap - that cost of education with as far as good institutions are concerned how can one adopt laws and apply those laws on the provincial and on the federal level to avoid these issues well

Power of Education.

I think the laws are already in the making and a lot of them have been made because you know just to tell your audience after the 18th amendment basically this subject of education has been devolved onto the provinces and Punjab in this regard has made a very comprehensive law in which they've you know address the issue of education what education should actually entail which you just be reminder fast cavern and then what are the responsibilities of parents teachers everybody else under the system but I think in addition to basically educating children and so to speak you know to strengthening the educational system I think the responsibility also lies on Pakistani media which has emerged as a fourth pillar of the estate and I think Pakistani media has to play a very positive role in this and it should because I do think that education is the only way forward it is the only wave you know we can fight so many socio-economic issues it's the only way we can you know actually strengthen our economy given when it comes to social media or any other media that propagates education you are the British Council do that a lot a lot of programs that are disseminated through television through social media on the Internet that people can access and get a quality education from how much of that do you also use in your program such as pili it's a big a big part of it as you said one aspect of pili is helping teachers improve their level of English and that's part of the wider remit of the British Council and so we do a lot of work in terms of disseminating information and courses material to the wider public and one example being radio programs so we we have a radio program broadcast on FM 101 I think every Saturday and Sunday all right and that's aimed specifically at helping teachers improve their teaching skills but also helping the wider public improve their English skills I mean in Pakistan you've got a hundred and forty million people with mobile phones so that's another area that we're working some work in progress to be honest but another area where we're trying to disseminate material as well all right working progress when we talk of working progress as far as education is Pakistan is concerned Fatima girl education is also a huge work in progress we have come leaps and bounds as far as educating our girls and telling our societies and Families that our women need to be educated as well because these are the ones who will propagate our next generations and if they're not educated then how can we bring forward a generation that could or will be educated in the Punjab government where you have worked specifically what kind of measures have you seen and how much of work have you seen yielding results I think the Punjab government like I just mentioned the law at least it's a very progressive low compared to the other you know provinces and when you study the reality on ground basically I think we still need more to do because we need to see more it's just not basically about educating women it's also about you know sustaining them once they come into the you know battlefield once they actually enter into practical life so perhaps in that regard I think not only in Punjab generally in Pakistan

Female education

we need to you know see more women around we need to see women and more in positions of power like more in administrative positions perhaps and more in the Pakistani judiciary and you know educated women in the media itself so I think overall the when you study the statistics the girl education a ratio has gone up in Pakistan but I think I would if I were to analyze it I would say that sustainability is also very important question mark there so we just don't need to work on you know increasing that ratio further we also need to work on sustaining at at the same time so overall if I was to study I think statistics are positive but we need to you know work hard to maintain that is one sistex are also something that a British Council works on extensively because it is based on statistics that you move around in different areas to see whether which are the areas that need to be focused upon or worked upon to improve the education in that sector now when you actually go to the places do the statistics Gavan correspond to the actual material that you see over there I think definitely I think three main issues that I see in education are on enrollment or two main issues let's say are on teaching quality and enrollment so I would say that for in terms of quality of education I think we have seen an improvement with the work that we were doing in with not just with PE and Punjab but also a similar project in KPK and we have seen an improvement in terms of teachers moving towards delivering more communicative learning activities and so yes I would say there's a link there alright that's interesting communicative linkages between teachers and students whether it be on the education front or the awareness front is very important do we see that I think there is definitely a lack of that which is primarily why you know cases like again.



I said are occurring and not only saying up IDI I do a show in which I talk about different kind of atrocities happening to women like you know be it sexual harassment be domestic abuse be at acid attacks and you know even honor killings so I think teachers are obviously you know nobody would you know disagree with that they are the torchbearers so I think if you educate the teacher then obviously you are passing down those values to the students as well so teachers need to be educated and I would again emphasize that the family members also need to be equally educated about you know all these crimes because at the end of the day we are all working as a network we are working as a society so perhaps to the extent that we can prevent these crimes I think we should all you know try it and at least you know spire towards that given when we talk of education awareness cannot be left behind education and awareness I feel go hand in had at the British Council whether it be in Pakistan or any other country you've worked in almost seven other countries before you came to Pakistan you were from Palestine he worked in Egypt in other countries as well how have you seen the level of awareness versus education in those countries and in Pakistan I think we're talking specifically about Pakistan first of I think you're absolutely right and I think the British Council has an actual excellent initiative called take a child to school as it's all well and good having trained you know trained teachers and classrooms but there needs to be the willingness of parents to send their children to school and so I think the change in perception is it's something that takes time but as I said the British Council it's something that we're working in and three take a child to school we've managed to get a hundred and ten thousand children across sixty districts which have very low levels of enrolment into school mmm-hmm so it's a lot of work that's been done roads a lot of work it has been done a lot of work is in progress Fatma when you go to different girls education centres in the rural areas versus the urban centres and the amount of emphasis that is being put by the provincial governments on educating the girls or or educating the mothers or the general public is concerned what sort of progress have you found out directly or indirectly I think directly I feel that you know people are more open to the concept of educating girls now even in the rural areas at least I would like I like to have you know optimistic perspective on that because you know even the maids in the houses today if you say that you know they would a lot of them have come up to me and said them in those which we have worked in my house that you know we want to get a part-time education so I think generally the level of acceptability of women acquiring an education even in the rural areas I think that has definitely gone up but having said that again I think there is a lot that actually needs to be done and I think we can only do that if you all work towards it and I think Pakistani media here is a very important role to play because a media if you see it is actually advocating a lot of girl and women issues we see a lot of dramas being made on private TV channels which add for you know which I advocate for girls education which talk about child abuse which also you know deplore and which condemn social practices so I think perhaps we need to see more screen space on such issues that is also something that will you know help us strengthen you know education when it comes to and maybe if asthma laws need to be devised in that respect as well but concerning laws for education for the benefit of Education what are the current laws that are prevalent okay so basically are primarily the Pakistani Constitution after basically the 18th amendment makes it a fundamental right for anybody to acquire education from the age of 5 to 16 years basically up to the primary level.

Education in different parts of Region. 

but how this right is given to different people depends on which province they are living in to a living and basically because it's a provincial subject now and like an earlier mentioned Punjab has compared to other provinces develop more comprehensive legislation on it because they've actually defined what education is all about how important it is to basically incorporate quality education then they also talk about the responsibilities of parents to educate their child and in the event that they don't what penalties they could be liable to and what are the responsibilities of teachers again points that you've raised earlier during the show that you know how important it is for teachers to ensure that the child is getting a proper education and being in touch with the family and everything so I think the problem Omar doesn't lies with the law is because the other provinces have also legislated on it the problem lies in enforceability of the laws which again is something that is generic to Pakistan it is just not generic with regards to the education system its generate - generally laws in Pakistan because I think Pakistan has reached that level where we have a lot of laws if there is a problem the problem is in the implementation that is something that we need to our implementation of laws it's an important topic that I will touch on also further in this show given being in Pakistan what are the different challenges that you as an educator feel that you've encountered so far and what are the challenges that you feel are less important compared to the previous countries that you visited mmm I think in terms of actually carrying out these in terms of implementing the projects that I've that I've told you about I think there's two big things that are a challenge I think one is just this the size of the work itself Pakistan's an enormous country as is the education system my mother actually visited me in Pakistan earlier this year all right and I took her on a trip up to natty ugly so we drove from the Horten at sea a galley and it was an eight-hour drive and when we arrived I showed her on the map how far we we'd gone and she said well back that's nothing that's just a small you know a small part of the map that we've covered but that was eight hours of driving so I guess my point is that Pakistan is is an enormous country Punjab is one of has one of the largest education systems in the world so the challenge of actually reaching teachers through the work with that we do is it it is it's big the second challenge I would say is accessibility in terms it's important for me and for the rest of the project team to actually get out into the field to to see teachers in classrooms so that we can better support the government in addressing the issues that we're talking about but at times it is difficult to get out and about for example for various reasons it's difficult to get to certain areas of KPK of southern Punjab so that that's another challenge which are the areas that you've gone to personally and witnessed the education system there so I've it's one of the great things of my job here actually I've had the opportunity to travel all over Punjab so I've been to to Malta to Bahawalpur to Faisal Abad to Rawalpindi and similarly in KPK have had the chance to go to it to cohort savate Peshawar so I've really have .

Role of organizations in Education.

I think it's giving it's been excellent to kind of see teachers in you know in in their classrooms and for me to see that the challenges that they're dealing with on a day to day basis for them are when it comes to disseminating education and the role of organisations such as the British Council or other organizations that work the public sector in imparting education to different sectors in Pakistan law-and-order is one situation which makes these international organizations very wary I did not ask the question from given but I'm going to ask this to you being a woman being also a lawyer and being in touch with so many women of different circles do you feel that Pakistani women also are faced with this law and order situation while imparting education specially to girls in rural areas I think that is a very big challenge uber and I think you very rightly pointed it out because I think half the challenge when you go to rural areas is to actually convince them to you know come forward for something so even I do I've personally had legal to see workshops in rural areas of Pakistan where I've actually been shunned for actually conducting that legal literacy and you're a Pakistani note even partly I'm not even a foreigner so I'm telling you from my personal experience would I've been actually told to just go away from that place so I'm speaking from personal experience so I think that in itself is a very very big challenge which is why I think that you know you're right that public and private partnerships they should also come together because when you go with you know as a team you go with more force rather than making it an individual effort and having said that I think again no matter how much you stress I think the role of media especially in rural areas for channels like ours Pakistan television which is you know widely washed in was with an antenna exactly exactly and then radios radio which is again very widely you know I said we fm 101 where he shows his I mean probably his program is transmitted twice a week if I'm not wrong Saturdays and Sundays yes exactly so I think the role of media no matter how much you stress on it that cannot be undermined and then I also think that you know a dough to door campaign especially in areas where you can't where media might not even be accessible for that matter and so I think we need to also get union councils at a local level in this sense to to educate women but to answer your question of course it is a big challenge but just because this is challenge we just can't you know shy away for exactly we you have to you have to move forward young that is true given as an educator put in the site your services for Pakistan other countries beforehand what is your definition of quality education I think what quality education for me and my career started as a teacher so I think it's it's involving involving the students not talking at them I think the last thing you want to do as a teacher is to lecture students so getting students to participating and taking responsibility for their own learning making it enjoyable and if you know making delivering an enjoyable activity and enjoyable lesson means the kid will want to be there and it means their that their learning outcomes they're going to be better there I think that it's a big part of it so definitely I think interactivity is a big thing a big thing making sure it's child friendly so enjoyable for the the students themselves yeah these are two big things I think all right and another thing would be maybe the the medium of instruction so I think I'm making sure that you're using a language that the child's familiar with I think that's an important thing delivering



 for example a science lesson or a maths lesson in a language which the child perhaps isn't familiar with is it's a something that's of a lot of debate at the moment two things that Gavin has pointed out Fatima are very important interactivity and medium of Education now our current curriculum if you see it I've been through it you've been through it there is a lot of cramming let's put it very bluntly there's less and less of interactivity which is changing with the times but how much of that needs to be further evolved in the coming years I think it needs to be done more at the primary level because you know there's a very famous saying which Grave says that you know if you give me the first two years of a child's life you give me the whole nation so I think that needs to be stressed more at a primary level and then that needs to be stretched at the secondary level and at a higher education level and that in line is with the Pakistani Constitution itself which again and again says after having made you know education a fundamental right it says that you the state is also responsible for providing a quality secondary education and then the higher education wherever it is possible on merit so the euro everything streamlines together but I think having said that the education itself we need to change the way we basically imparted from route learning to encouraging more of critical thinking and more of you know individual Apperception assigned of a thinking and regarding your other point the medium of Education exactly medium of Education which you raised I think that is something that has been addressed which we should actually you know aspire to address in vision 2030 because that particularly talks about one having one curriculum and then one examination national system particularly but I think I would agree with Gavin on this when he says that you know the children they should be educated in their own regional languages because I think that way they are more familiar and they are lesser chances of them dropping out but at the same time it's obviously very important to educate them in English as well so I think both of them need to go together in a certain coherence we just can't simply educate them in English and we just can't you know deprive them from not being educated in their own particular you know region I think it's very important for people to be educated in their native languages but nevertheless keep languages like English as a second language so that when they grow up they don't become alien to language they actually feel because you know especially those who've been to government schools they feel that you know their English speaking skills are not as proficient and at some level as the higher secondary level rather college/university ability English and especially want to go abroad in verbals and a lot of people don't even want to stay in Pakistan they want to you know go abroad so I think of course the English medium instruction should not go it should there be there but it should be as a secondary language and way we talk about regional languages I think it's a very valid situation on his part that you know we should continue with that practice basically right now Gavin you impart basically teacher training or student training in the English language when you go to the rural areas do you see the teachers being properly proficient in the English language or do you that they need more training in the English language to understand the system of education that you are imparting through me I think well I think if we take it even further back and think about the children themselves I think definitely if we're talking about primary school children you know children as young as five I think it's it's a lot to us if we're delivering a maths lesson for example and teaching a child long division or about you know the life cycle the child would get disinterested I think and I mean it's it's - it's almost too demanding to expect them to do that in English so I think I mean you made a really good point farmer about differentiating between using English as a medium of instruction and teaching English as a foreign language so I think it I think teachers it would be useful for for teachers to for us to work with them to help them develop their proficiency in order for them to to teach quality lessons or English as a subject but I'm a bit worried about yeah English being used to teach other subjects I think it's it's a lot to ask of a young child and just an interesting I had an update when when I've been out in rural Punjab and rural parts of KPK .

Education in natural language .

I've observed classes where teachers and students have struggled to communicate in Urdu let alone English and the local language such as hash to your saraiki or Punjabi is used so it's quite interesting that there's an expectation at times for teachers to conduct classes in English when you know there's a struggle at times to communicate in Urdu and that's where your point of interactivity comes into play that the interactivity needs to be in a language that both the teachers and students understand with equal ease so that that interactivity becomes even better and this because the main essence of Education is to impart knowledge to the child and if you cannot impart that knowledge through the Charter in the proper manner then what is the need to do it whether it be in English in French or any other language I think that's right yeah and that the reason that we we include a component of English language teaching to the in terms of our face-to-face training to teach is that we we don't we would like to give teachers there we would like to empower them to be able to make a choice about when to use English when to use or do when to use Punjabi for example I'm weary of saying that the British Council is in you know going along and saying that you know you should use this language you should use this language I think it's the more important and productive for us to empower teachers and give them the choice about which language to give in making teachers aware of how to impart quality education is important but making the parents aware is also equally important what has your personal experience been as far as parent awareness is concerned I mean I in my work I deal mainly with teachers but I think you were talking earlier about the the rural urban divide with there being more issues of him enrolment of children not being enrolled in rural areas so I think it's I'd like to think it's not so much about parents not being interested in sending their children to schools I'm sure I think it's more about them not having a choice I think it can be costly at times I think in rural areas as the school might be quite far away from the child's home and it might be prohibitively expensive to for the child to use public transport each day all right think often in a family weathers where there's more than one child I think the family might only be able to afford to send one child one of their children to school and I think often that but that is the Sun rather would you agree your decision I think I would agree with him to some extent because exactly one of the circumstances that he's mentioned he's actually covered in the law by Punjab which it was published was passed in 2014 which says that the parent is only allowed not to send the child to school when he has a reasonable cause and the reasonable cause has been defined to be when the school itself is you know more than 2 kilometres away so to that extent I would agree with him but then they are also you know you can't ignore the fact that a lot of parents unfortunately so out of choice don't send their you know daughters to schools because they think that they would be better off perhaps you know working at people's homes labor is such a pertinent issue and or even for that matter even if they do get them educated at the primary or secondary level they don't perhaps to send them abroad like they do with their sons because they think they would be better off getting married here so you know you can't just ignore the socioeconomic status and the socio-economic factors which come into play especially and also the cultural factor so to speak basically which obviously do hinder girls education and but how does one change those culture of those social perceptions of the Society of the public of the parents in general I think the fact that laws have been made in itself that's a positive way forward because you know laws are made when people are basically wanting to step up against something like we had a lot of crime reporting against acid attacks in Pakistan then a law was enacted to you know basically cater to that and similar is the case in the case of you know honor killings but having said that I think we also need to educate the parents about the importance of education which can only come you know from again I think media sensitization and then of course civil society is a very important role to play in this you know awaring arranging conferences seminars and also working in conjunction with the government of Pakistan so I think it's a collective effort at the end of the day be it my effort on part of the government be it effort on part of the civil society on part of media as everybody is you know involved in it somewhere and everybody needs to be involved as well Padma now given there was one point earlier in the show that you took at that I would like to talk to again about Europe is the implementation of education in a manner that balances the approach to former and informal education educational reforms are something that keep on building that keep on happening in any developed societies such as in Europe and in the West as well how much of that is needed in countries such as Pakistan I think what at there are massive education reform programs underway in Pakistan one of the larger the larger ones being in Punjab itself and I think there are there it's not just the British Council that's working with the government on this there's a there are there's a huge number of NGOs working in education on this education on these education reform programs but yes I think it is important it's in one big issue is lack of infrastructure I think that that there there is a lack of classrooms in in Pakistan there there are issues with low numbers of teachers so I think it and there are obviously things that we're addressing through the programs I work on in terms of teacher quality so teacher quality is another big thing that comes into education reforms so I think yeah absolutely it's really important education it's a gateway isn't it to to to Avengers I think yes having a solid and robust and effective education system is important also when it comes to girls education Fatima it's very important to somehow share success stories of all those girls of all those women of all those teachers who've made it big after being educated how much of that do you feel is being imparted and needs to be done in the future I think again that's a very important and relevant question because if you were to look at the Pakistani media today and if I was to answer that question in light of what we see the amount of women projection we see on Pakistani media I think it has been highlighted because a lot of people you sit sitting you know you see sitting on screens today are educated and they've come from educated backgrounds be it TV anchors be attracter actresses and I think basically there is more acceptability of women in the professional market Ori also because of their education obviously the most prominent form being media because that's where you know it's easier to analyze that way but other than that I think there still needs to be a lot done because we also need to highlight people especially women who are educated but you know who aren't basically applauded for that you too came in fast but this was something very interesting you said that in our society the women say oh or the parents say why put the girl through a higher secondary education or a college education why not bring that to their houses you said media plays a very important role we've had the allama iqbal open university courses we've had the virtual university courses that used to be shown through television through cable or through satellite do you feel such a system could improve the basic education of women in the rural areas of Pakistan I think it could in fact when the harassment laws were passed a few years ago I remember doing shows on this topic as well I think Pakistan television very actively played you know all those ads in which basically the way harassment could be reported at workplaces and then even now there's a huge campaign as after zeinab skis and other cases similar to zine ups that is being propagated to the Ministry of Information on our tail exactly exactly and then the Punjab Commission on the status of women which is basically working for the empowerment of you know women in Punjab it has a way you know active helpline which again it propagates through different TV channels especially a through Pakistan television so I think media is a very important role to play women's in positions of power have been highlighted but I do think that you know more women need to be brought forward especially those which do not belong to me there because if you are in media you automatically get the limelight know what I think those women who are actually making a difference who are you know educated and who are doing well in life at a very general level also they need to be you know pinpointed given when it comes to programs such as pili under the British Council and the imparting of this program not only in Pakistan but in other countries what has been the success rate of such programs and what is the future that you see of program such as pili and the future of education under the British Council around the world I'm not being Pakistan specific here mm-hmm I think Oh as I said part of the British councils work is education so I think that will always be will always be committed to working beard in Pakistan in Palestine in Saudi Arabia any all of the countries around the world where we operate I think education is always going to be a big commitment for us in terms of the future talking specifically about Pakistan I would say a big part of what we do is on sustainability .




 I mentioned before that there's a huge number of NGOs working in Pakistan in this sector in this sector with working towards working with the government on education reform I think it's very important they to factor in sustainability I think you know all of these programs they're they're fixed terms so after three years the program's finished so I think it's important that the the the the relevant departments within government are able to continue this work all right furthermore also there are two approaches to getting education whether it be for me or for you or even forgive and I think Gavin you'd kind of reciprocate my feelings when I say that first is you you do your education to get your bread and butter that happens in most of the cases and the second is you take education for personal development and learning but that is not in all the strata of society but that is nevertheless very important Fatima also because education is just not for bet in butter but it's also for awareness it's also for understanding it's also for disseminating how much of that can change in countries like Pakistan through proper law through proper application and implementation of the laws as you also pointed out earlier in the program yes I think it can actually we changed if there is this one comprehensive codified policy formulated by the government of Pakistan to address these issues like it has for other you know issues like we have a labor policy but having said that the laws need to be implemented in full spirit in that regard and also I think that education needs to be basically UE



Pakistan also needs to honor I would like to mention in this regard the commitment it has made on the international arena to be able to achieve this because Pakistan is a signatory to different national treaties UDHR then there's the CRC which deals with rights of the child and then there's IDO which talks about women empowerment educating women so to speak so basically I think there's a lot that needs to be done in this regard and obviously we have to have the political we'll present in this regard to to move forward and the promises that the government has made you know the basically aspirations that they have for the GDP and how much they would spend on the in the budget how much would be allocated to education so I think a lot of factors would come into play basically it was alright last question to the both of you starting with you given how optimistic are you of the prospect of quality education in a country such as Pakistan I think I I am optimistic I'm I'm not naive and going to say that there are no challenges I think there are big challenges in Pakistan which we've already highlighted and but I think I am optimistic I think there's that much described lots of laws that have been enacted so I think definitely at the in terms of top-down there's there's policies which are supporting reform and I think the British councils work in education is an excellent example of a bottom-up approach so helping helping teachers improve the learning experience for children empowering parents to send their children to school so I think there are a lot of initiatives underway which so I would say I'm optimistic all right I've had my shot




so basically I think the laws are again there they need to be implemented one we need to see more stronger political will and we need to focus primarily if you were to take my concluding comment on this on the education of women in Pakistan because I do think that you know women they obviously do you have comprised more than 50% of the Pakistani population and at the end of the day if these are the same women which you are basically you know end up raising families so it's more important that we you know concentrate on their education as opposed to many education which has been obviously not as neglected as the main education I thank you very much the both of you Gavin clacey Fatima Shaheen who have given us time to have given us important information about the educational system on what has been done and what needs to be done to improve the system and quality of education in a country like Pakistan ladies and gentlemen.

A beautifull Quote About Education.

 I'll end this show with a little quote from our little girl Malala yousufzai who recently said and I really like that quote she said education is education we should learn everything and then choose which path to follow education is neither Eastern nor Western it is human would bid you farewell from this episode of Friday special will buy back that inshallah .
















for poetry visit our website :  your motive lines
for sad urdu poetry click on the link: sad urdu poetry
 for more urdu poetry :urdu  best poetry
for all urdu poetry visit here : urdu poetry
for  pushto poetry visit here pashto poetry
for english poetry visit here :  english poetry

for sad english poetry click here: sad english poetry